Dr Marcus Hellyer, Senior Analyst at ASPI (Australian Security Policy Institute – focusing on Defence economics and military capability, joins Michael regarding Australia’s Defence Department being warned that its spending on contractors risks eating into its acquisition budget and demoralising its own workforce.

Also discussed is reports that the Australian Defence Department is examining the Type 214 submarine produced by Germany’s TKMS, even though a French designed fleet is due to begin entering service in the 2030s.

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